Bfys Meeting Friday 21 September at 9:30 h in N328
Please, in advance first read and comment on the second paper.
9:30 Introduction and discussion of LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 by Krystof De Bruyn 10:30 Inventory remarks LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 10:50 End
With the second paper (2012-033) we will quickly go through the comments received, which I will put (or you may put yourself) at the Nikhef Indico: http://agenda.nikhef.nl/contributionDisplay.py/submit?contribId=1&confId... (Please, protect your text with lhcb and the usual passwd)
Draft 1 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 Title : Measurement of the time-dependent $CP$ asymmetry in $B^0 \to J/\psi K^0_{\rm S}$ decays Journal : PLB Contact authors : Bruno Souza de Paula, Julian Wishahi Reviewers : Tom Latham (chair), Sajan Easo EB reviewer : Roger Forty Analysis note : ANA-2012-016 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-035-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477749 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/view/LHCbPhysics/Bd2JpsiKS
Draft 2 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 Title : First observations and measurements of the branching fractions for the decays $\bar{B}^0_s \to D_s+ K^- \pi^+\pi^-$ and $\bar{B}^0 \to D_s^+K^+\pi^+\pi^-$ Journal : PRD Contact authors : Steven Blusk Reviewers : Kazu Akiba (chair), Andrea Contu EB reviewer : Pierluigi Campana Analysis note : ANA-2012-076 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-033-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477712 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/viewauth/LHCbPhysics/B2DsKPiPiPi
Best regards, Tjeerd =================================================================== EVO: Title: Nikhef Description: Bfys Meeting 9:30-10:50 h Community: LHCb Password: N328
Meeting Access Information: - Meeting URL http://evo.caltech.edu/evoNext/koala.jnlp?meeting=M2MvMB222aD2Du9e9uDM92
- Password: N328 - Phone Bridge ID: 572 2703 Password: 4119
EVO Phone Bridge Telephone Numbers: --------------- - Switzerland (CERN, Geneva) +41 22 76 71400
- Netherlands (Nikhef, Amsterdam) +31 20 7165293 Dial '2' at the prompt
- Skype (tm) (World-wide) evo.phone See: http://evo.caltech.edu/evoGate/Documentation/extclient/skype/skype.html ===================================================================
Hi Tjeerd,
My comments on the first paper LHCb-PAPER-2012-035:
Your background model systematic seems very large. it is extracted from differences between a standard fit procedure and s-fit procedure. Is it possible you are overestimating this systematic? Here you have a very small number of background events wrt. the signal, and almost nowhere in the mass plot where you are signal-free. in this case I expect the s-weight procedure to be quite poor, and so show a larger statistical dependence on these few background events. In this case, it could be the difference between the two is then not representative of a systematic bias at all, unless the central values disagree.
[[ Perhaps Gerhard will contradict me here ;) ]]
My comments on the second paper LHCb-PAPER-2012-033:
Figures 2 and 3 are very convincing. Figure 7 is definitely not convincing. Rebinning into a smaller number of bins is advised, such that every bin has at least two events.
Line 197: To evaluate the "significance" of the peak, please fix the mean of the Gaussian to the expected mass difference of 565.1 MeV. Otherwise you suffer from local look-elsewhere effects.
Line 199: I do not understand your comment "variations in the background shapes do not change this conclusion". With such a small number of events of both signal and background, I would expect a reasonable dependence on the chosen shape. Flat, linear, threshold function at zero, polynomial, etc.
Cheers,
Rob
------------------------------------------ Robert Lambert FOM-VU-NIKHEF-Bfys LHCb Email: rob.lambert@cern.ch ------------------------------------------ CERN, 13-1-018 Tel: +41 22 767 4024 Fax: +41 22 766 8109 ------------------------------------------ Nikhef N241 Tel: +31 20 592 2131 Fax: +31 20 592 5155 ------------------------------------------
________________________________________ From: Tjeerd Ketel [tjeerd@nikhef.nl] Sent: 14 September 2012 17:29 To: bfys-physics@nikhef.nl Cc: Rob Lambert Subject: Bfys Meeting Friday 21 September at 9:30 h in N328
Bfys Meeting Friday 21 September at 9:30 h in N328
Please, in advance first read and comment on the second paper.
9:30 Introduction and discussion of LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 by Krystof De Bruyn 10:30 Inventory remarks LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 10:50 End
With the second paper (2012-033) we will quickly go through the comments received, which I will put (or you may put yourself) at the Nikhef Indico: http://agenda.nikhef.nl/contributionDisplay.py/submit?contribId=1&confId... (Please, protect your text with lhcb and the usual passwd)
Draft 1 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 Title : Measurement of the time-dependent $CP$ asymmetry in $B^0 \to J/\psi K^0_{\rm S}$ decays Journal : PLB Contact authors : Bruno Souza de Paula, Julian Wishahi Reviewers : Tom Latham (chair), Sajan Easo EB reviewer : Roger Forty Analysis note : ANA-2012-016 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-035-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477749 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/view/LHCbPhysics/Bd2JpsiKS
Draft 2 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 Title : First observations and measurements of the branching fractions for the decays $\bar{B}^0_s \to D_s+ K^- \pi^+\pi^-$ and $\bar{B}^0 \to D_s^+K^+\pi^+\pi^-$ Journal : PRD Contact authors : Steven Blusk Reviewers : Kazu Akiba (chair), Andrea Contu EB reviewer : Pierluigi Campana Analysis note : ANA-2012-076 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-033-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477712 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/viewauth/LHCbPhysics/B2DsKPiPiPi
Best regards, Tjeerd =================================================================== EVO: Title: Nikhef Description: Bfys Meeting 9:30-10:50 h Community: LHCb Password: N328
Meeting Access Information: - Meeting URL http://evo.caltech.edu/evoNext/koala.jnlp?meeting=M2MvMB222aD2Du9e9uDM92
- Password: N328 - Phone Bridge ID: 572 2703 Password: 4119
EVO Phone Bridge Telephone Numbers: --------------- - Switzerland (CERN, Geneva) +41 22 76 71400
- Netherlands (Nikhef, Amsterdam) +31 20 7165293 Dial '2' at the prompt
- Skype (tm) (World-wide) evo.phone See: http://evo.caltech.edu/evoGate/Documentation/extclient/skype/skype.html ===================================================================
Hi Tjeerd,
Here are my comments to 2012-033.
Title: I don't think observation, measurement and fraction need to be plural. Only decays. Line 9-12: Gamma is an angle of the UT triangle, not a CKM phase. If you accept CKM is the whole picture, then gamma very is well measured via global CKM fits. Line 12: "Inherently free from" is a bit strong. I would say that the SM contribution is largely dominating. Line 15 and 17: The bar on B and Bs are different. Fix your templates. Line 18-19: I would put this sentence before introducing the decays. Line 28: collected by... in 2011 (it could be 2012 as we now have more than that). Line 51: which primary interaction? primary interaction _vertex_. Line 61: B is undefined. Is that the same as the B_(s) below? Line 63-67: There's an ordering problem. It's not clear if D(s) daughters count as B daughters or not. Line 70: I presume m_K* standard for the world average mass. Same for D in line 76. Line 82: too large space after 100. Line 92: What do you mean with vertex constraint? PV? You should cite DecayTreeFitter here, if that's what you use. Line 104: and following: why bold min and max? Line 109: This FoM is only defined if you assume a BF for the decays you want to observe. What did you choose and why? Line 151: Does the value of 86.8 use our measurement of this quantity? (If not it should). Figure 3: The line for Full PDF does not have the same width in the label and the figure. Line 171: "lower-lying strange mesons". Could you be more explicit? Figs 4, 5, 6 miss "LHCb". Fig.7 : I back Rob. 50 would be more convincing. 203-204: why do you introduce e^q_rel and define them in the text? Just put the definitions in the formula. The equation should be numbered. Table 2: It presume your M>3 Corr has something to do with the M(X_s,d)<3 GeV/c^2 veto. Please be explicit, use the same notation and put units where appropriate. Table 2: 10^-2% is a weird unit. Why not 10^-4? 232: two standard deviations where? in MC? Is it relevant? You give no information to the reader to decide if it's likely to be a statistical fluctuation or something to worry about. 237: Systematic error -> The systematic uncertainty. 262: yield, arises (, missing) Table 3: fs/fd: replace 0.0 by --, or N/A. Spell out Efficiency. Line 274: ?? Ref [3] and [4]: Too large space after the title.
Cheers,
Patrick
On 09/21/2012 12:35 PM, Rob Lambert wrote:
Hi Tjeerd,
My comments on the first paper LHCb-PAPER-2012-035:
Your background model systematic seems very large. it is extracted from differences between a standard fit procedure and s-fit procedure. Is it possible you are overestimating this systematic? Here you have a very small number of background events wrt. the signal, and almost nowhere in the mass plot where you are signal-free. in this case I expect the s-weight procedure to be quite poor, and so show a larger statistical dependence on these few background events. In this case, it could be the difference between the two is then not representative of a systematic bias at all, unless the central values disagree.
[[ Perhaps Gerhard will contradict me here ;) ]]
My comments on the second paper LHCb-PAPER-2012-033:
Figures 2 and 3 are very convincing. Figure 7 is definitely not convincing. Rebinning into a smaller number of bins is advised, such that every bin has at least two events.
Line 197: To evaluate the "significance" of the peak, please fix the mean of the Gaussian to the expected mass difference of 565.1 MeV. Otherwise you suffer from local look-elsewhere effects.
Line 199: I do not understand your comment "variations in the background shapes do not change this conclusion". With such a small number of events of both signal and background, I would expect a reasonable dependence on the chosen shape. Flat, linear, threshold function at zero, polynomial, etc.
Cheers,
Rob
Robert Lambert FOM-VU-NIKHEF-Bfys LHCb Email: rob.lambert@cern.ch
CERN, 13-1-018 Tel: +41 22 767 4024 Fax: +41 22 766 8109
Nikhef N241 Tel: +31 20 592 2131 Fax: +31 20 592 5155
From: Tjeerd Ketel [tjeerd@nikhef.nl] Sent: 14 September 2012 17:29 To: bfys-physics@nikhef.nl Cc: Rob Lambert Subject: Bfys Meeting Friday 21 September at 9:30 h in N328
Bfys Meeting Friday 21 September at 9:30 h in N328
Please, in advance first read and comment on the second paper.
9:30 Introduction and discussion of LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 by Krystof De Bruyn 10:30 Inventory remarks LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 10:50 End
With the second paper (2012-033) we will quickly go through the comments received, which I will put (or you may put yourself) at the Nikhef Indico: http://agenda.nikhef.nl/contributionDisplay.py/submit?contribId=1&confId... (Please, protect your text with lhcb and the usual passwd)
Draft 1 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 Title : Measurement of the time-dependent $CP$ asymmetry in $B^0 \to J/\psi K^0_{\rm S}$ decays Journal : PLB Contact authors : Bruno Souza de Paula, Julian Wishahi Reviewers : Tom Latham (chair), Sajan Easo EB reviewer : Roger Forty Analysis note : ANA-2012-016 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-035-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477749 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/view/LHCbPhysics/Bd2JpsiKS
Draft 2 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 Title : First observations and measurements of the branching fractions for the decays $\bar{B}^0_s \to D_s+ K^- \pi^+\pi^-$ and $\bar{B}^0 \to D_s^+K^+\pi^+\pi^-$ Journal : PRD Contact authors : Steven Blusk Reviewers : Kazu Akiba (chair), Andrea Contu EB reviewer : Pierluigi Campana Analysis note : ANA-2012-076 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-033-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477712 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/viewauth/LHCbPhysics/B2DsKPiPiPi
Best regards, Tjeerd =================================================================== EVO: Title: Nikhef Description: Bfys Meeting 9:30-10:50 h Community: LHCb Password: N328
Meeting Access Information:
Meeting URL http://evo.caltech.edu/evoNext/koala.jnlp?meeting=M2MvMB222aD2Du9e9uDM92
Password: N328
Phone Bridge ID: 572 2703 Password: 4119
EVO Phone Bridge Telephone Numbers:
Switzerland (CERN, Geneva) +41 22 76 71400
Netherlands (Nikhef, Amsterdam) +31 20 7165293 Dial '2' at the prompt
Skype (tm) (World-wide) evo.phone See: http://evo.caltech.edu/evoGate/Documentation/extclient/skype/skype.html
===================================================================
Bfys-physics mailing list Bfys-physics@nikhef.nl https://mailman.nikhef.nl/mailman/listinfo/bfys-physics
... usual mistake of using the wrong smtp server.
On 09/21/2012 03:16 PM, Patrick Koppenburg wrote:
Hi Tjeerd,
Here are my comments to 2012-033.
Title: I don't think observation, measurement and fraction need to be plural. Only decays. Line 9-12: Gamma is an angle of the UT triangle, not a CKM phase. If you accept CKM is the whole picture, then gamma very is well measured via global CKM fits. Line 12: "Inherently free from" is a bit strong. I would say that the SM contribution is largely dominating. Line 15 and 17: The bar on B and Bs are different. Fix your templates. Line 18-19: I would put this sentence before introducing the decays. Line 28: collected by... in 2011 (it could be 2012 as we now have more than that). Line 51: which primary interaction? primary interaction _vertex_. Line 61: B is undefined. Is that the same as the B_(s) below? Line 63-67: There's an ordering problem. It's not clear if D(s) daughters count as B daughters or not. Line 70: I presume m_K* standard for the world average mass. Same for D in line 76. Line 82: too large space after 100. Line 92: What do you mean with vertex constraint? PV? You should cite DecayTreeFitter here, if that's what you use. Line 104: and following: why bold min and max? Line 109: This FoM is only defined if you assume a BF for the decays you want to observe. What did you choose and why? Line 151: Does the value of 86.8 use our measurement of this quantity? (If not it should). Figure 3: The line for Full PDF does not have the same width in the label and the figure. Line 171: "lower-lying strange mesons". Could you be more explicit? Figs 4, 5, 6 miss "LHCb". Fig.7 : I back Rob. 50 would be more convincing. 203-204: why do you introduce e^q_rel and define them in the text? Just put the definitions in the formula. The equation should be numbered. Table 2: It presume your M>3 Corr has something to do with the M(X_s,d)<3 GeV/c^2 veto. Please be explicit, use the same notation and put units where appropriate. Table 2: 10^-2% is a weird unit. Why not 10^-4? 232: two standard deviations where? in MC? Is it relevant? You give no information to the reader to decide if it's likely to be a statistical fluctuation or something to worry about. 237: Systematic error -> The systematic uncertainty. 262: yield, arises (, missing) Table 3: fs/fd: replace 0.0 by --, or N/A. Spell out Efficiency. Line 274: ?? Ref [3] and [4]: Too large space after the title.
Cheers,
Patrick
On 09/21/2012 12:35 PM, Rob Lambert wrote:
Hi Tjeerd,
My comments on the first paper LHCb-PAPER-2012-035:
Your background model systematic seems very large. it is extracted from differences between a standard fit procedure and s-fit procedure. Is it possible you are overestimating this systematic? Here you have a very small number of background events wrt. the signal, and almost nowhere in the mass plot where you are signal-free. in this case I expect the s-weight procedure to be quite poor, and so show a larger statistical dependence on these few background events. In this case, it could be the difference between the two is then not representative of a systematic bias at all, unless the central values disagree.
[[ Perhaps Gerhard will contradict me here ;) ]]
My comments on the second paper LHCb-PAPER-2012-033:
Figures 2 and 3 are very convincing. Figure 7 is definitely not convincing. Rebinning into a smaller number of bins is advised, such that every bin has at least two events.
Line 197: To evaluate the "significance" of the peak, please fix the mean of the Gaussian to the expected mass difference of 565.1 MeV. Otherwise you suffer from local look-elsewhere effects.
Line 199: I do not understand your comment "variations in the background shapes do not change this conclusion". With such a small number of events of both signal and background, I would expect a reasonable dependence on the chosen shape. Flat, linear, threshold function at zero, polynomial, etc.
Cheers,
Rob
Robert Lambert FOM-VU-NIKHEF-Bfys LHCb Email: rob.lambert@cern.ch
CERN, 13-1-018 Tel: +41 22 767 4024 Fax: +41 22 766 8109
Nikhef N241 Tel: +31 20 592 2131 Fax: +31 20 592 5155
From: Tjeerd Ketel [tjeerd@nikhef.nl] Sent: 14 September 2012 17:29 To: bfys-physics@nikhef.nl Cc: Rob Lambert Subject: Bfys Meeting Friday 21 September at 9:30 h in N328
Bfys Meeting Friday 21 September at 9:30 h in N328
Please, in advance first read and comment on the second paper.
9:30 Introduction and discussion of LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 by Krystof De Bruyn 10:30 Inventory remarks LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 10:50 End
With the second paper (2012-033) we will quickly go through the comments received, which I will put (or you may put yourself) at the Nikhef Indico: http://agenda.nikhef.nl/contributionDisplay.py/submit?contribId=1&confId... (Please, protect your text with lhcb and the usual passwd)
Draft 1 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 Title : Measurement of the time-dependent $CP$ asymmetry in $B^0 \to J/\psi K^0_{\rm S}$ decays Journal : PLB Contact authors : Bruno Souza de Paula, Julian Wishahi Reviewers : Tom Latham (chair), Sajan Easo EB reviewer : Roger Forty Analysis note : ANA-2012-016 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-035-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477749 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/view/LHCbPhysics/Bd2JpsiKS
Draft 2 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 Title : First observations and measurements of the branching fractions for the decays $\bar{B}^0_s \to D_s+ K^- \pi^+\pi^-$ and $\bar{B}^0 \to D_s^+K^+\pi^+\pi^-$ Journal : PRD Contact authors : Steven Blusk Reviewers : Kazu Akiba (chair), Andrea Contu EB reviewer : Pierluigi Campana Analysis note : ANA-2012-076 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-033-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477712 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/viewauth/LHCbPhysics/B2DsKPiPiPi
Best regards, Tjeerd =================================================================== EVO: Title: Nikhef Description: Bfys Meeting 9:30-10:50 h Community: LHCb Password: N328
Meeting Access Information:
- Meeting URL
http://evo.caltech.edu/evoNext/koala.jnlp?meeting=M2MvMB222aD2Du9e9uDM92
- Password: N328
- Phone Bridge ID: 572 2703 Password: 4119
EVO Phone Bridge Telephone Numbers:
Switzerland (CERN, Geneva) +41 22 76 71400
Netherlands (Nikhef, Amsterdam) +31 20 7165293 Dial '2' at the prompt
Skype (tm) (World-wide) evo.phone See:
http://evo.caltech.edu/evoGate/Documentation/extclient/skype/skype.html
Bfys-physics mailing list Bfys-physics@nikhef.nl https://mailman.nikhef.nl/mailman/listinfo/bfys-physics
=============--=============================================== Summary of the Friday 21 September 2012 Bfys Meeting at Nikhef ============--================================================ Present: Maurizio Martinelli, Chiara Spaltro, Antonio Pellegrino, Gerhard Raven, Tjeerd Ketel, Marcel Merk. Connected via EVO: Rob Lambert, Krystof de Bruyn, Manuel Schiller. Some of the PhD students are in Bonn.
Krystof inroduced The LHCb-PAPER-2012-035, "Measurement of the time-dependent $CP$ asymmetry in $B^0 \to J/\psi K^0_{\rm S}$ decays" was introduced by Krystof. Comments are also available at the Nikhef indico page of this Bfys meeting.
The LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 "First observations and measurements of the branching fractions for the decays $\bar{B}^0_s \to D_s+ K^- \pi^+\pi^-$ and $\bar{B}^0 \to D_s^+K^+\pi^+\pi^-$" was not introduced. Rob made a comment about Fig.7. TK put his comments on the Nikhef indico page.
Please, send more comments on these two papers until Monday. The final comments will be sent around to the Nikhef bfys-physics group and will be posted before the deadline of 26 September.
Answers to our comments on LHCb-CONF-2012-028 are available. Most but not all comments were accepted. Change of nomenclature (inclusive CP violation, A^RAW_CP) was not accepted for the CONF-note, as a similar note is already out with the same nomenclature. But it will be considered for the PAPER. A new version (v2) is available on their Analysis website. I will propose the Nikhef reaction before Monday.
Best regards, Tjeerd ============================================================
Dear All,
Please find attached the list of Nikhef comments on the Bd->JpsiKs analysis (LHCb-PAPER-2012-035). I will be submitting them Wednesday noon. Until then corrections, additions, improvements and other remarks are still welcome.
Cheers, Kristof
Quoting Tjeerd Ketel tjeerd@nikhef.nl:
Bfys Meeting Friday 21 September at 9:30 h in N328
Please, in advance first read and comment on the second paper.
9:30 Introduction and discussion of LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 by Krystof De Bruyn 10:30 Inventory remarks LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 10:50 End
With the second paper (2012-033) we will quickly go through the comments received, which I will put (or you may put yourself) at the Nikhef Indico:
http://agenda.nikhef.nl/contributionDisplay.py/submit?contribId=1&confId... (Please, protect your text with lhcb and the usual passwd)
Draft 1 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 Title : Measurement of the time-dependent $CP$ asymmetry in $B^0 \to J/\psi K^0_{\rm S}$ decays Journal : PLB Contact authors : Bruno Souza de Paula, Julian Wishahi Reviewers : Tom Latham (chair), Sajan Easo EB reviewer : Roger Forty Analysis note : ANA-2012-016 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-035-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477749 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/view/LHCbPhysics/Bd2JpsiKS
Draft 2 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 Title : First observations and measurements of the branching fractions for the decays $\bar{B}^0_s \to D_s+ K^- \pi^+\pi^-$ and $\bar{B}^0 \to D_s^+K^+\pi^+\pi^-$ Journal : PRD Contact authors : Steven Blusk Reviewers : Kazu Akiba (chair), Andrea Contu EB reviewer : Pierluigi Campana Analysis note : ANA-2012-076 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-033-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477712 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/viewauth/LHCbPhysics/B2DsKPiPiPi
Best regards, Tjeerd =================================================================== EVO: Title: Nikhef Description: Bfys Meeting 9:30-10:50 h Community: LHCb Password: N328
Meeting Access Information:
- Meeting URL
http://evo.caltech.edu/evoNext/koala.jnlp?meeting=M2MvMB222aD2Du9e9uDM92
- Password: N328
- Phone Bridge ID: 572 2703 Password: 4119
EVO Phone Bridge Telephone Numbers:
Switzerland (CERN, Geneva) +41 22 76 71400
Netherlands (Nikhef, Amsterdam) +31 20 7165293 Dial '2' at the prompt
Skype (tm) (World-wide) evo.phone See: http://evo.caltech.edu/evoGate/Documentation/extclient/skype/skype.html
===================================================================
Bfys-physics mailing list Bfys-physics@nikhef.nl https://mailman.nikhef.nl/mailman/listinfo/bfys-physics
(1) As an additional systematic check, could you compare the results obtained from a "counting experiment analysis" with those you obtain here from a "shape analysis"? That is, normalize the B and Bbar samples individually, count the number of signal events and use them to measure the direct CP violation.
->
(1) As an additional check, could you please compare the results obtained from a) a fit which normalizes B and Bbar separately (a "shape-only" measurement) b) a time-integrated measurement, i.e. counting the # of (signal) B and Bbar decays with the nominal result (which implicitly combines the above two results), and verify that the results obtained are consistent.
Dear All,
We got a reply from the Bd->JpsiKs analysis group on our physics questions already, see https://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1481872 Are we happy with the answers given?
Cheers, Kristof
Quoting Kristof De Bruyn debkr@nikhef.nl:
Dear All,
Please find attached the list of Nikhef comments on the Bd->JpsiKs analysis (LHCb-PAPER-2012-035). I will be submitting them Wednesday noon. Until then corrections, additions, improvements and other remarks are still welcome.
Cheers, Kristof
Quoting Tjeerd Ketel tjeerd@nikhef.nl:
Bfys Meeting Friday 21 September at 9:30 h in N328
Please, in advance first read and comment on the second paper.
9:30 Introduction and discussion of LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 by Krystof De Bruyn 10:30 Inventory remarks LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 10:50 End
With the second paper (2012-033) we will quickly go through the comments received, which I will put (or you may put yourself) at the Nikhef Indico:
http://agenda.nikhef.nl/contributionDisplay.py/submit?contribId=1&confId... (Please, protect your text with lhcb and the usual passwd)
Draft 1 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 Title : Measurement of the time-dependent $CP$ asymmetry in $B^0 \to J/\psi K^0_{\rm S}$ decays Journal : PLB Contact authors : Bruno Souza de Paula, Julian Wishahi Reviewers : Tom Latham (chair), Sajan Easo EB reviewer : Roger Forty Analysis note : ANA-2012-016 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-035-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477749 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/view/LHCbPhysics/Bd2JpsiKS
Draft 2 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 Title : First observations and measurements of the branching fractions for the decays $\bar{B}^0_s \to D_s+ K^- \pi^+\pi^-$ and $\bar{B}^0 \to D_s^+K^+\pi^+\pi^-$ Journal : PRD Contact authors : Steven Blusk Reviewers : Kazu Akiba (chair), Andrea Contu EB reviewer : Pierluigi Campana Analysis note : ANA-2012-076 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-033-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477712 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/viewauth/LHCbPhysics/B2DsKPiPiPi
Best regards, Tjeerd =================================================================== EVO: Title: Nikhef Description: Bfys Meeting 9:30-10:50 h Community: LHCb Password: N328
Meeting Access Information:
- Meeting URL
http://evo.caltech.edu/evoNext/koala.jnlp?meeting=M2MvMB222aD2Du9e9uDM92
- Password: N328
- Phone Bridge ID: 572 2703 Password: 4119
EVO Phone Bridge Telephone Numbers:
Switzerland (CERN, Geneva) +41 22 76 71400
Netherlands (Nikhef, Amsterdam) +31 20 7165293 Dial '2' at the prompt
Skype (tm) (World-wide) evo.phone See: http://evo.caltech.edu/evoGate/Documentation/extclient/skype/skype.html
===================================================================
Bfys-physics mailing list Bfys-physics@nikhef.nl https://mailman.nikhef.nl/mailman/listinfo/bfys-physics
On Sep 28, 2012, at 08:28:37, Kristof De Bruyn debkr@nikhef.nl wrote:
We got a reply from the Bd->JpsiKs analysis group on our physics questions already, see https://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1481872 Are we happy with the answers given?
I'm happy with the reply on 'shape-only' and 'counting-only'!
Cheers, -- Gerhard
Cheers, Kristof
Quoting Kristof De Bruyn debkr@nikhef.nl:
Dear All,
Please find attached the list of Nikhef comments on the Bd->JpsiKs analysis (LHCb-PAPER-2012-035). I will be submitting them Wednesday noon. Until then corrections, additions, improvements and other remarks are still welcome.
Cheers, Kristof
Quoting Tjeerd Ketel tjeerd@nikhef.nl:
Bfys Meeting Friday 21 September at 9:30 h in N328
Please, in advance first read and comment on the second paper.
9:30 Introduction and discussion of LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 by Krystof De Bruyn 10:30 Inventory remarks LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 10:50 End
With the second paper (2012-033) we will quickly go through the comments received, which I will put (or you may put yourself) at the Nikhef Indico:
http://agenda.nikhef.nl/contributionDisplay.py/submit?contribId=1&confId... (Please, protect your text with lhcb and the usual passwd)
Draft 1 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 Title : Measurement of the time-dependent $CP$ asymmetry in $B^0 \to J/\psi K^0_{\rm S}$ decays Journal : PLB Contact authors : Bruno Souza de Paula, Julian Wishahi Reviewers : Tom Latham (chair), Sajan Easo EB reviewer : Roger Forty Analysis note : ANA-2012-016 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-035-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477749 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/view/LHCbPhysics/Bd2JpsiKS
Draft 2 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 Title : First observations and measurements of the branching fractions for the decays $\bar{B}^0_s \to D_s+ K^- \pi^+\pi^-$ and $\bar{B}^0 \to D_s^+K^+\pi^+\pi^-$ Journal : PRD Contact authors : Steven Blusk Reviewers : Kazu Akiba (chair), Andrea Contu EB reviewer : Pierluigi Campana Analysis note : ANA-2012-076 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-033-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477712 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/viewauth/LHCbPhysics/B2DsKPiPiPi
Best regards, Tjeerd =================================================================== EVO: Title: Nikhef Description: Bfys Meeting 9:30-10:50 h Community: LHCb Password: N328
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-- Gerhard
Dear All,
For those still interested: We received an extended answer from the Bd->JpsiKs analysis group on our comments, see https://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1484986
I feel we need to reply to some of their answers (I attached what I have so far); mainly the one regarding the sFit/cFit used to estimate the systematic due to the background parametrisation. Given that I know little about this myself, could somebody else formulate an answer? Thanks!
Secondly, I would suggest that they use their cross-check on multiple candidates to assign a (tiny) systematic for this effect (as Patrick and I did for Bs->JpsiKs). Do you agree?
Cheers, Kristof
Quoting Kristof De Bruyn debkr@nikhef.nl:
Dear All,
We got a reply from the Bd->JpsiKs analysis group on our physics questions already, see https://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1481872 Are we happy with the answers given?
Cheers, Kristof
Quoting Kristof De Bruyn debkr@nikhef.nl:
Dear All,
Please find attached the list of Nikhef comments on the Bd->JpsiKs analysis (LHCb-PAPER-2012-035). I will be submitting them Wednesday noon. Until then corrections, additions, improvements and other remarks are still welcome.
Cheers, Kristof
Quoting Tjeerd Ketel tjeerd@nikhef.nl:
Bfys Meeting Friday 21 September at 9:30 h in N328
Please, in advance first read and comment on the second paper.
9:30 Introduction and discussion of LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 by Krystof De Bruyn 10:30 Inventory remarks LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 10:50 End
With the second paper (2012-033) we will quickly go through the comments received, which I will put (or you may put yourself) at the Nikhef Indico:
http://agenda.nikhef.nl/contributionDisplay.py/submit?contribId=1&confId... (Please, protect your text with lhcb and the usual passwd)
Draft 1 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-035 Title : Measurement of the time-dependent $CP$ asymmetry in $B^0 \to J/\psi K^0_{\rm S}$ decays Journal : PLB Contact authors : Bruno Souza de Paula, Julian Wishahi Reviewers : Tom Latham (chair), Sajan Easo EB reviewer : Roger Forty Analysis note : ANA-2012-016 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-035-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477749 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/view/LHCbPhysics/Bd2JpsiKS
Draft 2 : LHCb-PAPER-2012-033 Title : First observations and measurements of the branching fractions for the decays $\bar{B}^0_s \to D_s+ K^- \pi^+\pi^-$ and $\bar{B}^0 \to D_s^+K^+\pi^+\pi^-$ Journal : PRD Contact authors : Steven Blusk Reviewers : Kazu Akiba (chair), Andrea Contu EB reviewer : Pierluigi Campana Analysis note : ANA-2012-076 Deadline : 26-Sep-2012 e-group : lhcb-paper-2012-033-reviewers Link : http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1477712 Twiki : https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/viewauth/LHCbPhysics/B2DsKPiPiPi
Best regards, Tjeerd =================================================================== EVO: Title: Nikhef Description: Bfys Meeting 9:30-10:50 h Community: LHCb Password: N328
Meeting Access Information:
- Meeting URL
http://evo.caltech.edu/evoNext/koala.jnlp?meeting=M2MvMB222aD2Du9e9uDM92
- Password: N328
- Phone Bridge ID: 572 2703 Password: 4119
EVO Phone Bridge Telephone Numbers:
Switzerland (CERN, Geneva) +41 22 76 71400
Netherlands (Nikhef, Amsterdam) +31 20 7165293 Dial '2' at the prompt
Skype (tm) (World-wide) evo.phone See:
http://evo.caltech.edu/evoGate/Documentation/extclient/skype/skype.html
Bfys-physics mailing list Bfys-physics@nikhef.nl https://mailman.nikhef.nl/mailman/listinfo/bfys-physics
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Tjeerd Ketel